Distance, Timing and all that jazz…

I’ll start by saying what follows is my opinion, my way of looking at things, my way of training and my way of fighting. It works for me, works for most of my students, but not all, and works in every context I found myself in so far. If you disagree , that’s good, as we need multiple paths to multiple destinations within martial arts. I am going to be talking about Timing and Distance , there are other elements just as important but if I bring in too much I will ramble on for  pages, so I’ll try to confine myself to these parameters.  It must also be noted that how important any element to martial arts is for you is very much dictated by your aims and your reason for doing martial arts in the first place. Anyway, let’s begin.

For me, the key to any fighting art is Timing and Distance. These two elements are the keys that unlock everything no matter the art, the weapon (extra or the ones you are born with), or the context. I tell my students a simple truth. If my timing and distance are perfect then any technique I try will work, if they are poor then no technique will work no matter how good I think it is. You could say get timing and distance correct and you can ignore everything else.  While this is not totally true it is a truism that imparts how important these concepts are.

This is one of the reasons why, for me, technique is way down the list of priorities when it comes to fighting and training for fighting. My aim is twofold (I teach HEMA so weapons are a HUGE part of what I do)…

Don’t get hit

Hit the other person,

As you can see if these are my goals for fighting then Timing and Distance are key and technique almost become inconsequential.  Now before the shouting begins notice I say almost, because, in reality, technique is important and is vital to keeping classes and fighting in general, interesting and fun. Plus if I have good technique on top of good timing and distance then my fighting becomes better and my options within a fight open up. There are other elements I concentrate on before technique like Body Mechanics, strategy, tactics etc , but we can discuss them another day.  Every time I teach and train technique it has two elements to it…

How to do the technique correctly to make it effective

How can I build the training of principles like timing and distance into my technique training.

The training of principles such as timing and distance can be repetitive and let’s face it dull, but it needs to be done and repeated over and over to enable it to be used well and in context, so keeping it front and centre of everything I do, makes the training more relevant, more fun, and much more useful. This does lead to another question though, even for us old hands….

What is Timing and what is Distance?

We all think we know the answer, even beginners do, and on the most part we do, but what it means , how we use it, and most importantly how we think about it are key to making it work. Like everything else within martial arts our thoughts on this subject will of course change over time, which is as it should be.

I was recently introduced to a different way of looking at all this and it has almost immediately changed how I train and how I fight.. It’s nothing new; it’s nothing magical, just a different way to think about it from what I had been using.  As always within martial arts it is much easier to impart ideas and information face to face but I’ll give it a go, I hope you can follow my train of thought but if not, please send me questions and I will try to answer them.

The concept of timing and distance is on the surface quite simple. If I control distance I keep myself from getting hit, if I control my timing I can hit my opponent at any time. While this is correct it’s not very useful and does not explain a great deal. I’ll take it almost everyone reading this will be a martial artist of some sort so I don’t think I need to go into great detail about how we use timing and distance and what it is for, but I will mention that it almost always involves more than we think if we only stopped to think about it a little more.

I was recently re-introduced to the works of a 16th Century military gentleman and commentator on the arts of personal combat,  ‘George Silver’ by a good friend Martin ‘Oz’ Austwick  from English Martial Arts who I must thank for working with me on understanding these principles and how to use them. (I’ll link to his YouTube channel and Facebook page at the bottom of the article). Within his works George talks about the…

‘The four grounds or principals of that true fight at all manner of weapons’.

23845460 10155780039146390 2113626947 n Distance, Timing and all that jazz...

It was here that I found a much better way of thinking about and executing the principles of timing and distance. His four grounds are as follows…

  1. Judgment,
  2. Distance,
  3. Time,
  4. Place.

George goes on to explain these ideas and their importance…..

‘The reason whereof these 4 grounds or principals be the first and chief, are the following, because through judgment, you keep your distance, through distance you take your time, through time you safely win or gain the place of your adversary, the place being won or gained you have time safely either to strike, thrust, ward, close, grip, slip or go back, in which time your enemy is disappointed to hurt you, or to defend himself, by reason that he has lost his place, the reason that he has lost his true place is by the length of time through the numbering of his feet, to which he is out of necessity driven to that will be agent.’

The language and use of words is a little odd to our modern eyes, but not too much so we can’t gain their meaning with some work and effort. I say this as on first reading and through our modern brain filters you could be fooled into thinking you understand all he says here and it’s quite clear and simple. You could be correct of course but for many that is a trap that can lead you down a very different road of understanding from the intended one. But to keep it simple let’s look at his four grounds.

It must be said that although George Silvers works primarily deal with weapons of all types I will add that his basic principles hold true for unarmed as well as armed combat. We can look at his ‘Grounds’ in turn and I’ll try to explain my understanding of them. George begins with Judgment as it underpins the other three but I will take my lead from Mr Austwick and start with Distance.

  1. Distance

When looking into the works of George Silver it becomes apparent that when he talks about Distance he is actually talking about two concepts not one. Being IN Distance and being OUT of Distance. Using this idea you can see that at any point in time during an engagement  you and your opponent will be either in distance or out of distance. For George being in Distance is when your opponent can strike you without taking a step.

This concept is key and if you watch enough fight/ comp videos you will see people utilise this concept time and again, often without really breaking it down or fully understanding it.  Distance keeps us safe (Don’t get Hit), controlling distance allows us to control how your opponent strikes and when. This can confer a great advantage to you if you learn how to use it. Your hand can and does move faster than a brain and muscles can respond, this makes this concept deadly when mastered. This may seem like a bold claim but it is not. Go experiment with it, you will soon see what I mean.

To a fighter it means if you are caught in distance you can be hit faster than you can defend, but if you can control the distance then you can hit faster than they can respond. You can use your movement, your opponents movement or a combination of the two to make sure you are only IN Distance when you want to be, and ONLY when you want to be.

  1. Timing

Timing is simply performing the required action at the correct time, with enough speed to make it work. Another definition that sounds good but is not of much practical use. So I will go back to Mr George Silver to try to break it down and be a little more useful.

George first breaks timing down into two categories. True Time and False Time.

True Time is basically actions performed at the correct speed to make them work (mostly without the need to step).

False Time is actions that are slower and so are inherently flawed and mostly doomed to failure. (Mostly they need a step to work).

A little better but still not much practical use is it. George knows this and so he breaks it down further.

So George breaks it down further in 4 ‘Times’ for each, here are the True Times….

The time of the hand.
The time of the hand and body.
The time of the hand, body, and foot.
The time of the hand, body, and feet.

And here are the False Times….

The time of the foot.
the time of the foot and body.
the time of the foot, body, and hand.
the time of the feet, body, and hand.

You may have spotted that the Tue Times involve the feet as well as the hand. Surely this goes against Georges teachings???  Well. No it doesn’t.  He advocates a false time is when the action RELIES on the movement of the foot or feet. His True times can involve a movement of the foot or feet AS LONG AS the action does not rely on that movement to be successful. Go experiment with it, you’ll find he is correct.

So we now have some definitions for Timing and Distance with some practical advice from someone much more qualified than me to speak on such matters. I simply take his words and try to interpret them into something that makes sense. You should try it to.

BUT what of his other two Grounds that make up this topic, Place and Judgment?  These can be a topic on their own but it would be remiss of me not to at least address them, so I will…

23846201 10155780039846390 1005886427 n Distance, Timing and all that jazz...

  1. Place

When talking about Place George has this to say….

“Keep your distance & suffer not your adversary to win or gain the place(3) of you, for if he shall so do, he may endanger to hurt or kill you.

Know what the place is, when one may strike or thrust home without putting in of his foot.

It may be objected against this last ground, that men do often strike & thrust at the half sword & the same is perfectly defended, where to I answer that the defence is perfectly made by reason that the warder has true space before the striker or thruster is in force or entered into his action.”

There is more but this gets the basic idea across. Being in the correct place can be thought of as target specific.. While being the correct distance to strike is very important, you  need ask “Strike What”?  What is your target, what is your goal? Being in the correct Place allows you to complete your desired action while not allowing your opponent to complete his. This can be a large and important area of discussion but let me give a small and pretty silly example to try to explain.

Stand at the correct distance from another person so you can hit their head without moving your feet. This is the ideal distance and Place to complete that action. Now turn around and face away from your opponent. You are still in the correct distance but boy are you now totally in the wrong place.. Play with it, have fun, go study Mr Silver for more insights into how to train and use it.

4. Judgment

Let’s go straight to what the great man has to say about this….

“The first governor is judgment which is to know when your adversary can reach you, and when not, and when you can do the like to him, and to know by the goodness or badness of his lying, what he can do, and when and how he can perform it.

He goes on to say…

“First when you come into the field to encounter with your enemy, observe well the scope, evenness and unevenness of your ground, put yourself in readiness with your weapon, before your enemy comes within distance, set the sun in his face traverse if possible you can, still remembering your governors.

Let all your lying be such as shall best like yourself, ever considering out what fight your enemy charges you, but be sure to keep your distance, so that neither head, arms, hands, body, nor legs be within his reach, but that he must first of necessity put in his foot(1) or feet, at which time you have the choice of 3 actions by which you may endanger him & go free yourself.”

Judgment gathers in all we have discussed plus your awareness of surroundings, environment, your opponent, their movement, demeanor etc. It is to remind you to use all available information to gain you the advantage, constantly assessing and reassessing at every moment. This may be obvious but sometimes the obvious gets over looked or not studied correctly.

I hope you have enjoyed  reading my thoughts and ideas on these matters and I hope they will be a some use. I assume some will agree and some will disagree, all ideas and comments are welcome. Thank you for reading and keep up the good work folks.

Links ….

Duncan McEvoy

mcevodf@yahoo.com

https://m.facebook.com/profile.php?id=324942460949021&ref=content_filter

Martin Austwick

https://www.youtube.com/user/EnglishMartialArts

https://www.facebook.com/EnglishMartialArtsAcademy/?fref=ts

23846124 10155780046321390 275682161 n Distance, Timing and all that jazz...

Duncan has been studying and teaching HEMA (Historical European Martial Arts) for 17 years. He started at the Royal Armouries in Leeds in 2000 and after a few years training created his own group in Liverpool. Duncan has spent many years training with as many different martial arts groups as possible to gain a wide knowledge of fighting arts including spending time with groups in Israel and the USA.
This included spending time with the teachers of arts such as Krav Maga, Escrima, Boxing, Aikido, Sambo, Fencing, Tae Kwon Do, Wrestling, Pugilism and many more. He continues to cross train as much as possible. This is to aid his study of the Historical European fighting arts.
In his own group Duncan teaches all manner of weapons including Longsword, Arming Sword, Staff, Sword and Buckler, knife etc. At the moment he is studying the works of George Silver in particular. His Group now trains regular on the outskirts of St Helens, a town near Liverpool.

RDX Curved Focus Mitts and Boxing Gloves Review

20150808 124720 resized 1024x576 RDX Curved Focus Mitts and Boxing Gloves Review

RDX Curved Mitts and Gloves Review

So I thought this week that it was about time I treated myself to a new set of gloves and focus mitts. My last ones are looking slightly worse for wear after years of MMA, KFM and recently Defence Lab and some MittMaster. So I got myself on Amazon and had a browse! The RDX Curved Focus Mitts and Gloves stood out to me. RDX are a well known brand, well respected and I’ve previously bought RDX gloves so knew the quality would be good. I wasn’t disappointed!

The gloves and mitts came packaged well, having that new pad smell that anyone involved in combat sport knows and loves! The pads are slightly smaller than my previous ones which to me is a good aspect, leading to greater accuracy in punches, kicks and strikes in general. The pads also have that perfect level of padding where there’s enough to absorb any hits you may receive during training, but not so much that your punches are lost in the padding. There’s still a pretty satisfying thump when you give them a whack! The pads are also pretty to swap with no straps or velcro. They simple slip on like a glove, giving great impact absorption while sticking to your hand due to the curvature of the pad.

20150810 200504 resized 1024x576 RDX Curved Focus Mitts and Boxing Gloves Review

The gloves are the same, good quality, easy to slip on and off and you can tell they are high quality and will last a while. They’re pretty thin so not great for hard sparring but for pad work and light contact these are perfect! The price was also great with both of these available for under £25 which for the quality and durability I think is pretty good value. I’ve bought expensive pads in the past, over £35 and had them fall apart on me after a couple of training sessions, slipping off my hands and generally disintegrating in no time at all. These pads as said stick to the hands making pad feeding easy and comfortable and even after hard hits show no signs of taking any impact!

20150810 200521 resized 1024x576 RDX Curved Focus Mitts and Boxing Gloves Review

Basically I’m sold and looking forward to giving these pads a really good go at Defence Lab this week where I can give them a real smashing. RDX are a quality brand and for the price, the RDX Curved Mitts and Boxing Gloves are a safe buy for anyone involved in martial arts or self defence!

Bob Breen Interview Part 3!

Bob Breen Interview Part 3!

Here it is folks! The final part of the awesomely fantastical Bob Breen’s interview. Here he talks about plans for the future and 4D as well as his branding partners in Andy Norman, Phil Norman and Eddie Quinn. Enjoy!

10560292 1546543545587277 1517430463595020362 o 300x200 Bob Breen Interview Part 3!

Lets talk about the collaboration with Andy Norman, Phil Norman and Eddie Quinn then.

I used to teach Andy back in the 80’s. He was an amazing determined guy that would come to see me in London from Hull once or twice a week and so when people say to me they can’t come to training for whatever reason, I always say there are no excuses! I taught Andy for a few years and we got on great, he was one of the best students I’ve had. I’d beat him up then he’d go back on the train thinking how he would beat me up next time in a tit for tat kind of way! We always kept in touch and then I met him in Italy last year and started talking about projects. I talked about 4D and he said why don’t you come and join me with the Defence Lab as we all have the same aim. Then with Phil as well who was an old JKD guy too. They’re all super brains! Phil was gladiators champion twice, Andy’s taught the Hollywood stars etc so why don’t we all work together. Andy has been the inspiration for it and he’s been a huge kick up the arse for us. It will be great fun and since we’ve been doing it I’ve had a great time. Then Eddie is on board too and he’s a great guy, fabulous communicator. We’re all pushing each other, it’s like a new wave happening and a new evolution that will take everything by storm!

10847271 570229229779431 6157860732609919338 o 300x200 Bob Breen Interview Part 3!

So leading on from that what are your plans for the future?

Well we start the online university in the New Year, some of which will link up with Taken 3 as Liam Neeson is a student of Andy’s. We’re all filming crazily as I have 50 years of experience I want to show, lots of techniques too, but also showing how to get them to work practically. We’re all different heights, Phil’s tall and athletic; I’m about medium height but had a double hip replacement in the past so that taught me how to find space within space. Andy is shorter than all of us so his is all inside game. So when we look at everything together it’s like a jigsaw and if you learn all three, you would be an incredibly well rounded guy! Everyone there is so much fun as well. It’s almost like the old days of JKD, everyone has high energy and everything is new and exciting! Who else has done anything like the Defence Lab World Conference last month? There were 300 people there all learning together and everyone was just so revved! That was just the start we’ve got huge plans.

10655208 568984239903930 2105425784109439931 o 300x200 Bob Breen Interview Part 3!

So finally what are your developments? How do you progress in the martial arts?

I’m collaborating with Matt Chapman at the moment with the 4D ground stuff. The 4D has a code, and a map which in essence can be seen as a timeline saying I’m here; I do this, etc so we want to do that with the ground too. I’m just training the 4D stuff hard now, we have a team we train at 7am in the morning with, all the high grade guys just bashing each other and testing the concepts and learning. We want to make sure it’s perfect for the guys we’re going to teach out there. We have discovered link points where you can go into Ghost or DL so my people can go into that so its cross branded, and also cross training. The big thing with 4D is a 4D fighter is never in front of you. We did a GoPro test where European BJJ champion David Onuma and I put a GoPro on our chest and we put it on every half second and attacked each other with blades. There are only 2 pictures with us in front of each other. All you catch is a bit of a shoulder, or a finger in the eye. It’s a great test as it shows, look; this is where you’re at. It’s not just you hit me, I hit you. A core concept is across all our systems is we don’t like or want to get hit. Myself, Andy and Phil and all the guys never want to get hit and that’s what we’re all about! We’re trying to do the martial arts we all dream of, we’re aiming at excellence.

Bob Breen Interview Part 2!!

Bob Breen Interview Part 2!

Here’s part number two of the awesome interview with the incredible Bob Breen! Enjoy and as always like, share, comment and get involved in The Martial View Community :).

300575 2341293367728 2137334964 n 225x300 Bob Breen Interview Part 2!!

So what are the main principles of 4D Combat?

So firstly its total stand-up combat. All fights start standing contrary to what people believe. That’s where we want to end it. They all start standing and we do total stand up fighting – striking, clinching, weapons and group attack. You can’t choose the format any fight will be in, or morph into, so you have to be adaptable. Similarly we’re all short of time so you need a simple format that works whatever is happening. We try to have a code that covers 60% of that so we aren’t learning 4 different arts; we’re learning 1 art with 4 different aspects. One of the aims is to be faster by making the opponent slower, so that’s the Kali kind of influence, making you heavy or off balance.  You can hit me really hard when you’re stood up straight, but I’m never going to have you standing straight, I’m always manipulating you all the while, mentally and physically. It integrates really well with Phil’s GHOST approach where you need to be fairly athletic. That’s fabulous which is why we have cross-branded as there are obviously times where you do have to be athletic and conditioned, but equally working hard for the sake of it isn’t good. You want them to work hard, and you to work less. Its minimum input, maximum output, keeping it simple and less is more!  Amazingly you get all that stuff you dreamed of happening like the fancy arm locks as they give it to you!

Youre obviously a world authority on self-defence and especially knife defence. There are a lot of schools out there at the moment that claim to teach self-defence, but its not really that realistic, what are your thoughts on effective self-defence teaching and training?

Real fighting is always a lot faster and more chaotic than you think it will be, that’s part of the 4D thing. I’m either running, or hitting or clinching; I don’t want to be where you are going to hit or stab me. Take knife, the amount of people with experience knife fighting is not a lot, not healthy ones anyway! I had my first knife altercation when I was 11 outside of school and I’ve come up again knife, axe, gun etc. I haven’t been heroic or done incredible things, but we’ve tried to take the traditional stuff, the Filipino stuff mainly as I think it’s the best and use it.

The Filipino stuff is the best, but it’s almost the very best of a bad bunch, so we try to take that, test it, upgrade it and thin it so that the criteria is very rigorous on it. What happens with the majority of dojos is you get the conformist thing. I’ll come at you in a certain conformist attack; it’s all big and slow. There’s no interruption where I poke you in the eye with one hand and stab you with the other, so we embrace all that, but we do it in a classical way where we have the idea of total freedom where you can do anything, but we break it down so it has a traditional structure.  That way you can learn and develop. It has to be tested though and have a chaos element or people lose the plot and think everything’s possible. Which of course it is but only when you really know it. Sometimes less workable aspects have their place.  Take disarms people say disarms don’t work, but what’s good about them is that you get to be holding the guys arm at a slower pace than him stabbing you repeatedly and fast. So you get to learn things there, body knowledge as well as practicing the disarms which do happen. So everything works, but you need to train it rigorously and not have weird training routines where it’s too collaborative.

What are your thoughts on pressure testing? Is it possible?

It’s alright, but even that can be forced where they come and you one on one. The best pressure testing I can see is Andy’s DL stuff in a group and Phil Normans Ghost. Andy’s is a simple idea done really really well. Often in a group attack where he’s always on the move. Phil likewise but with one on one, My own 4D is replete with pressure testing, it’s built into the training at every level. Take knife for instance you have to try and stab me, not just stab a spot two feet away. You want to get to the cutting edge, but not the bleeding edge as that doesn’t help anyone! There needs to be a balance. My old Chinese Tai Chi teacher used to say to me Mr Breen! How many times you fight?! So I said once, twice a year maybe at the most, then she would say how many times do you trip up?! So I would say everyday then she would say better to practice not tripping up then! And I think that’s where people get into a whole paranoid thing about what could happen, but really life is about having fun. Train hard and functionally, but it has to be fun! I want my 4D guys to be the best they can be, but they have to be a decent person, keep their fitness, keep safe and keep their spirituality too! I want guys training when they’re 85 and be really balanced individuals yet still kicking arse!

10603548 10154693010690403 6982002867721280375 n 225x300 Bob Breen Interview Part 2!!

The Yoshinkan Stance

The Yoshinkan Stance

Aikido stances are a bit odd. I’ll be honest. I’ve studied boxing, MMA, KFM and other self defence systems and the idea has always been the heel of your back foot has always been up. Look at boxers, their heel is very rarely on the floor. Yet in Aikido, we are encouraged to keep our heel on the floor. Why? The principle is sound. The more contact you have with the floor, the more stable you are and to me this makes sense. But from a power and striking and movement perspective, I struggle!

Movement and speed to me has always been the key to my martial arts training. I’m the average size of an oompa loompa, but by god I’m quick and that has always been my advantage, whether it has been doing martial arts or playing rugby for the school team, I’ve been rapid. Having my heel on the floor all the time as Yoshinkan Aikido dictates slows me down slightly. When we look at the basic techniques however, the heel is always down in order to secure stability and employ maximum power through the hips.

shioda 134x300 The Yoshinkan Stance

The Yoshinkan stance when teaching a beginner is fairly simple; If we were looking at migi hamni kamae (right stance) the right foot would step forward about a pace, with the front (right) foot turning to about 2 o’clock on a clock face. The back foot would be at about 10 o’clock with the heel down. 60% of the weight would be distributed to the front foot, 40% on the back foot. The top hand (right) would be about chest level with fingers splayed out, and the bottom hand would be about belt level, again, fingers splayed out. This is the basic Yoshinkan posture as outlined below.

However, from the numerous high ranking instructors I’ve learnt from. Kamae is more a state of mind. The posture allows you to find you centre, see where you are strong, and once you have this, it doesn’t matter how you stand, you have this strength as you know where your power lies. Kamae is simple a physical form of the mental state of your mind. When you enter kamae, everything at that point should be focussed on your partner. The mind and body unite and you focus completely on the what you are doing. When you reach a high level, the physical form doesn’t matter that much, its the mental state and the fact that you know where you are strong and where your centre is that is important. This to me is the essence of Kamae, please feel free to disagree 🙂

ando1 201x300 The Yoshinkan Stance

GHOST – Interview with Phil Norman

logoghostSM GHOST   Interview with Phil Norman

GHOST Fighting – Interview with Phil Norman

Here we are lucky enough to read about the GHOST fighting method developed by Phil Norman that is taking the combat world by storm! Phil talks about the development of GHOST, as well as his plans for the future and his business relationships with Andy Norman of Defence Lab, Bob Breen of 4D Combat, and Eddie Quinn of The Approach! As always, if you enjoyed the article share, like, comment your thoughts, and subscribe to The Martial View!

Thanks for taking the interview Phil! Let’s start with how you began your journey in the martial arts.

I started my martial arts journey with Kung fu at a local club before going to a Dan Inosanto seminar in 1989. I was immediately hooked on his teachings and spent the next decade travelling to the USA and Europe for his seminars. I would then come back to the UK and pick up door work in between trips.

I then became a full instructor under Guro Dan Inosanto in 2000 in Jeet Kune Do/Jun Fan and also in Kali and Silat. I had already become an instructor in Thai Boxing under Ajarn Chai, Savate under Professor Salem Assli, Combat Submission Wrestling under Sensei Erik Paulson and I was ranked in Shoot Wrestling under Sensei Yorinaga Nakamura. Back in the UK I was training with Sensei Dave Kavanagh in Judo and I trained for many years with Trevor Ambrose who at that time was 5x world kickboxing champion and also a professional boxer. The latter two would be a big influence in my day to day training when I started competing. I competed in different styles just for kicks and giggles because it helped me focus in my training and I won a World title and 2 British titles. Towards the end of my days competing I was knocked out and took my first loss in an MMA match. My peers said I would grow from this and become a better martial artist.

phil norman 300x200 GHOST   Interview with Phil Norman

Can you talk me through the development of the GHOST system and what makes it different to other training styles?

What actually happened was the start of what has now become the Ghost System. The fight I lost was probably my easiest one. It was pretty much one sided but then I got caught by my opponent who pulled out a last ditch strike. To ensure this would never happen again I looked at what I could have possibly done to avoid this. This brought new shapes and structures which then required new striking angles to make these shapes fit for purpose and effective. The problem was to then to convince fighters to do it. Needless to say they didn’t! It took a young student (5 years later) who just received his black belt and wanted to know what was next to get Ghost going. His name was Jake Clarke and he helped me develop the system by literally competing and trying it out. It wasn’t long before he started beating up the more experienced fighters I was training and the techniques I taught him became an elusive fighting system which needed a name. Initially the system used big evasive movements which are similar to the weapons based system Kali, so thought about calling it competition kali, but when I demonstrated it to some kali instructors they said that it wasn’t kali.

I remembered my first sparring session with my boxing coach Trevor Ambrose and how I couldn’t hit him and that it was like trying to hit a Ghost and then that was it! I realised that I had created a style which systemised the unorthodox evasive movement that was natural to boxers like Muhammad Ali and Prince Nassem and made it so that anyone can do it.

1 ghost GHOST   Interview with Phil Norman

I see that you have developed partnerships with people such as Bob Breen, Andy Norman and Eddie Quinn, how did these relationships come about?

We started to develop it further through fighting and started to get a lot of interest from people who wanted seminars. It was whilst I was doing a seminar hosted by Eddie Quinn (friends of the Approach) that I managed to catch up with Andy Norman from Defence Lab. We had known each other for years on the JKD seminar circuit; he was originally a private student of Guru Bob Breen. I was really impressed with what I saw when he did his set. I had only really seen actors trying to do it and it was nothing like the real thing. I was about to go and speak to him when he stopped the seminar and congratulated me on what I had done on the set before him. We got chatting and he offered me guidance on developing the business side of Ghost. We have been in communication weekly ever since.

Andy was also helping his old instructor Guro Bob Breen and brought us together and created the cross branding of Defence Lab, Breen 4D and Ghost. This has lead onto us joining forces for many events and more recently our involvement with Defence Labs World Conference with our good friend Eddie Quinn. It was the best martial art event I have been involved in. They (DL) are light years ahead as a professional martial art organisation.

10425082 10152491821109157 6598760800094226282 n 300x225 GHOST   Interview with Phil Norman

So what’s next for you and the future of GHOST?

For training I want to develop the instructor program into the USA (this year we trained instructors in Germany and Spain). I will be working hard to get the online program up next year and my fighters are still making waves so my long term goals are to break into UFC. The other is to get Jake boxing in the Olympics and also to raise the profile of Ghost via Hollywood! I have already been in front of a second director and stunt coordinator courtesy of Andy Norman and it looks like we are going to be involved in a project next year!

18a ghost pt2 300x212 GHOST   Interview with Phil Norman